Seems like it’s a well known fact that being poor or even middle class (if that will even exist anymore) in the US disposes one to a very low quality of life (e.g., living in areas with higher crime rates, bad healthcare, the most obvious being cost of living, …etc)
On the flip side, what are some reasons why the top 1-5% percentile would also want to leave the US? (e.g., taxes/financial benefits, no longer aligning with the culture? I would assume mainly the former)
If you are in the top 1-5%, is living in the US still the best place to live? (as many people would like to suggest)
Can you elaborate on the making money part? What makes it the best nation in the world from that standpoint? Genuinely curious.
I can’t speak to the “best in the world” because I don’t know about the whole world, but the place I work for is located in 145 countries and the US by far makes the most. I am at the bottom of the pay scale (low cost of living city & haven’t worked here long) & I make over double what someone 2 levels above me (5+ years more experience) would make in London.
Similarly, I know someone who lived in Japan and made $30K USD who moved to the US and went to $150K USD doing the same job.
A plumber doing 50k
This is especially true if you work in tech. Software engineering is 3-4 times more lucrative in the US than in the EU. Combine this with income lower taxes and the difference is staggering.
We moved from Australia. If we moved back ,we would each take about 50-70% pay cut, in very different unrelated industries. A similar home to our one in the US would cost about 3x the price.
We are essentially about 4-5x richer in America working the same jobs. When we get to the point of not needing to work anymore, we would probably move back to Australia.
What industries? Because we’re in tech/law-finance and we have found it’s a lot closer to 30%.
But then, and this is a genuine question, doesn’t the extra pay gets spent in healthcare and other costs that I keep reading to be also quite expensive in the US, like owning a car or general cost of living?
Depending on what your income is, your healthcare (as in your co pays and insurance contribution) is not so expensive that it’s going to eat up that difference in pay check.
And in those very good jobs, you frequently get better insurance with better coverage and lower co-pays.
Owning a car in the US I have found to be WAY cheaper than the EU. I am not the person you asked this of, and it’s been 16 years since I was in Australia, but gas prices in some parts of the EU/AU would make an American weep. I have family in the UK and EU and they pay almost more per liter than what you pay for a gallon here, and a gallon is 3.78 liters. MSRP on a lot of vehicles is cheaper in the US. I don’t know what car insurance rates are like, but unless you’re getting hosed in the US because you are a crappy driver, there’s no way that the difference in rates makes a huge difference on the bottom line at a certain income level.
https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/
Based on the current rates, my fam in NL are paying double the US cost in gasoline. And despite what people say about bikes and public transportation, the vast majority of people I know back there still commute by car.
A Toyota Corolla costs $22k in the US and £30k+ in the UK.
Cost of Living seems to be having problems everywhere. In the US there are places that span the range from cheap to normal to expensive to astronomical. Plenty of people in the EU saw costs rise a huge amount during the pandemic, and housing crises are making living spaces pricey too.
I recommend reading news sources of the places you want to be, subreddits too, and while some are biased towards what people complain about versus praise, it does give some info on what are problematic issues.
And don’t forget that car prices are generally the same or higher than the US around the world. Imaging buying a $22k car when you’re making $500 a month? Cars are essentially a luxury where I’m from
Please keep in mind that healthcare expenses are not proportional to income per n the USA. People in better jobs tend to have better health insurance plans and they also tend to live healthier life styles. With good insurance, these top out at several thousand per year per family.
Taxes tend to be lower in the US, real estate tends to be cheaper in the US, cars tend to be cheaper in the US. I am not sure why you think that general cost of living is very high in the USA.
The 1% in France makes like 80k, the 1% in the US makes 400k. Less regulations more profits more competition for skilled workers.
it’s not like that at all. The 1% in both countires are about the same. The average person seems similar wealth wise in france, but the bellow average person is far better off in france.
Many broke ass run down american areas.
Chat gpt said top one percent in France earn about 100k eur in 2021. That’s way less
Literally that’s the stats - France top 1% income at 7.1k euro per month vs the US at 400k per year. And the top 10% in France is 44k (40k euros link) while in the US it’s some 170k (link)
When comparing upper middle class (1-10% income - doctors, lawyers, engineers, mid career business people), Americans earn much more than Europeans which is why it attracts talent from many of those countries. Median income is around the same you’re right. And being lower income is harder in the US with limited social programs.
I live in France and I personally know 4k+ net is considered top 10% (gross per year is about ~100k EUR). I think that 7k value in your source is net meaning the gross value per year is not 80k, but rather 140-150k.
Still a huge difference from the USA, I won’t argue that. But no, someone earning 80k a year gross in France (which is what you’re saying comparing to 400k USD) is not in the top 1%. I guarantee it.
it’s not like that at all. The 1% in both countires are about the same. The average person seems similar wealth wise in france, but the bellow average person is far better off in france.
Many broke ass run down american areas.
This is specially true if you are in one of the big cities in the US (NY, Bay Area). For my job, I’d probably make 20-25% in Europe vs what I make in the US
What job? Teaching? Nothing pops out at me as being more lucrative in Europe than the US (with the exception of jobs in Switzerland)
I’m just curious!
It’s called ‘American dream’ for a reason. It’s a country that people who truly work hard and never stop grinding will be rewarded. But that also mean laid back people will not be happy.
I can only talk from an EU perspective but in my field a junior dev in the US typically starts at the same rate as a senior dev or high end medior dev in NL.
House prices are much lower in the states making buying affordable for middle class families and in some cases even lower class families. This is nearly unheard of in most of europe because of extremely high taxes and significantly lower wages.
Building capital in the US is much easier than it is in Europe because of higher wages, lower taxes and generally cheaper products/services.
Where in the US the economic model is built based on upward mobility and rewarding those who work hard and smart, granted with risks. The EU is mainly running on what is called generational wealth. People who already have lots of money/property keep it regardless of performance while those who do not often don’t. Again there are exceptions to this rule but as a generalization this is true.
The social safety net is better in europe but it comes at a cost. High performers and talented people often get sidelined/punished in the process. The US allows such people to bloom more often at the cost of a stronger social safety net.
It also helps that most major inventions and industries are in the US meaning that getting into the forefront of things is much easier.