I’ve heard from a lot of expats who reluctantly have to be relocated to Europe that it could be difficult to adapt back to life in European cities again, some told me they got ‘’spoiled’ by the feeling of safety in Seoul, Tokyo Shanghai or like Hongkong, also the convenience such as accessibility to supermarkets, convenient stores etc. There could be more but that’s all I can recall.
So did you find it difficult or challenging once you go back to live in Europe, after experiencing Asian cities for several years, if not, i would be interested to know why as well.
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Depends on where in the EU, currently in Germany, hating every second of it. Nothing is available after 7pm and forget about getting anything on Sundays, everything is closed!
Yes but that’s the interesting thing, for those who have experienced both their home country (europe) and asia, sometimes leaving home goin into a completely different culture and way of living make them realise they belong back in Europe, some on the contrary don’t want to go back because of all the issues people have listed here =) where in Germany do you live?
Lmao what kind of european cities are you talking about theres 20 shops at a 2 minutes walk from me and have never felt unsafe
Maybe paris or london are different but most of europe is fine
just want to add that as a woman, ‘asian cities’ are not as safe as a lot of people assume. im in Japan right now and the open sexual harassment here is way worse than anything i experienced in the UK. one of the main reasons i feel less safe is because defending yourself physically is frowned upon here. the police also have a bit of a reputation for not taking SA seriously
yeah i can take the bins out at night, but can i ride a busy train without being groped?
I’m quite looking forward to returning the UK ☺️
The convenience of access to almost anything 24hrs a day is something you will miss for sure.
But what you get in return is convenience in other ways, regular chores always felt like missions haha. You know dealing with banks, housing, government stuff/papers etc.
Adjusting takes some time, but it’s not unfathomable.
The safety component really cannot be understated.
Not having to be mindful about your stuff when going to the restroom at Starbucks, or walking home alone late at night, these are things I feel so blessed to be able to do without worrying.
This is also the main reason why I really do not see myself go back to Europe at any point in my life.
Lived in Saigon and Taipei 3 years combined. While Saigon isn’t the safest compared to Tokyo or Taipei my wife would regularly walk home from the bar at midnight solo with no issues whatsoever. We also lived in D3 which is one of the densest areas of the city. Taipei was so ridiculously safe that I lost my keys once and I backtracked knowing full wellmthat no one touched them. Sure as shit on a busy street they were where I thought I left them.
Moving back to the US was … sad.
Live in Tokyo, often back in Euro. No problem whatsoever, most Euro metro have shops open late, great public transport etc. - not Tokyo or Seoul or Hong Kong level, but good enough for most intent and purposes.
Remember, for you to satisfy that ice cream craving at 2am, some poor sod on minimum wage must be willing to man the 7-11 all night. That has various implications.
Either way, both are great! No problem adapting back and forth.
I live in Tokyo too and havent gone back to europe dor such a long time that’s why im freaking out a little, how about safety? And may i ask which city you used to live in Europe?
Remember, for you to satisfy that ice cream craving at 2am, some poor sod on minimum wage must be willing to man the 7-11 all night. That has various implications.
And cities in Europe have lower density and shorter working times compared to cities in East Asia.
Meaning there is way lower demand for such thing anyway. And fewer people willing to take the job, so higher salaries would be necessary to attract anyone.
Yeah I think this is something a lot of people forget. The work culture in many Asian cities is much, much more intense than much of Europe for example - as an expat we can typically move into jobs that are sometimes less demanding than the jobs locals have to do.
Realistically, I’d rather take the 5 weeks of holiday plus bank holidays that I get in the UK than the time off my Korean friend gets in Japan. It is extremely hard to even book a week off unless its its golden week.
Exactly, some of the expats forget how privileged they are
Living like a king in Asia back to living like a pauper in Europe
I miss Bangkok. Bangkok spoiled me.
Me too, I never felt as safe anywhere in Europe as i did in Bangkok even on Khao San road. I love in Dublin now and it’s a kip, teens on e-scooters run the city.
I found Bangkok super sleazy
Haven’t moved back to Europe yet, but when visiting I realised how big the difference is, mostly because of the safety / how you have to carry yourself when out and about. There’s so much “minor” or latent violence that’s accepted as normal where I grew up, I didn’t even think about it until I’d lived elsewhere.
In Seoul you don’t have to watch your bag or laptop in a cafe, you don’t have to check behind you while using an ATM, you don’t have to check your surroundings before pulling your phone out of your pocket, you don’t have to keep checking your pockets and guard for pickpockets, you don’t have to keep tabs on which guys at the pub are likely to be looking for a fight, you don’t have to cross the road when a group of young lads (even teenagers) are approaching, you don’t worry about whether you locked the doors, when you hear a noise at night you don’t have to grab a makeshift weapon and clear the flat because nobody is breaking in. Until I left, I didn’t realise just how much mental energy I had put into thinking about safety and violence.
when a group of young lads (even teenagers) are approaching
Are groups of teenagers in Europe often considered violent/harassing?
Depends on the town and the teenagers but random violent assault isn’t unheard of, they have some serious cultural/behavioural/psychological issues. They know the police are stretched too thin to respond to calls so they run riot.
Someone glanced at them? Fair game for a wind up or pretext for a “fight” Didn’t glance at them? Doesn’t matter, one of them was in the mood anyway…
I live in Canada and I don’t do all the things in your second paragraph.
Which part of Canada is in Europe?
Doesn’t matter. I thought to pitch in too, politely ;).
I have lived in different European countries and have never done any of that, except locking the door when leaving the house for extended periods (the rest of the time you can just close the door, unless you have a dumb handle that can be opened from outside without a key, and even then I didn’t bother locking it if I was inside) and maybe avoiding leaving valuables unguarded in a cafe (I’ve left stuff unguarded before, but I wouldn’t do it in every cafe in every town). For pickpockets, I don’t keep valuables in back pockets, but it’s not something I would want to do anyway, and I don’t actively worry about pickpockets.
That’s a good experience, I hope it continues! There are better and worse areas of course.
unless you have a dumb handle that can be opened from outside without a key
Having a door handle that cannot be opened from the outside without a key is considered locking the door, at least in Japan. Probably Korea too.
Also, using the rear wheel obstructor built into the bike frame is also considered locking your bike in Japan. Actually locking your bike to a sturdy object is considered weird.
There was also an absurd fashion trend of having really long wallets that stick out of your back pocket. I can’t imagine such a fashion trend working in any other part of the world.
People regularly leave valuables unguarded in cafes, in even well known sketchy neighborhoods in Tokyo. Sketchy neighborhood means “you can probably buy sex” and “there’s a lot of gambling” not “if you leave your laptop out on the cafe table when you use the bathroom it will be stolen.”
Yeah, I’m not saying there isn’t more danger of property crime in Europe (although it depends on where in Europe; where I live now in Germany no one locks bikes in the inner courtyard in the small housing complex where I live, accessible freely from the street, for instance, and when I lived in the Netherlands I didn’t lock my bike at all when stopping at small towns and rural areas, although I generally did in cities); I’m saying you don’t have live continuously worrying about this stuff. I don’t worry about locking the front door, or about having valuables easily accessible, or about my surroundings; I just keep house keys on me and pull the door shut when I leave, and I keep valuables where I’d keep them anywhere in the world. I go where I need to go, even in places considered sketchy and even at night, with no particular worry. The level of alertness you need to have in Europe is grossly overstated by some.
And the amount of money that goes into security too. I spent thousands in security and safety which I would never spend in Japan because there’s just no need
What cities are you visiting in europe? Ive never done any of those things here either.
It wasnt always like this in europe
Hello fellow Dubliner I’m guessing!
Living in the UK the only one of those things I ever do is lock my door when I either go out or go to bed. The others are just not something I ever really think about 99% of the time. Maybe if I’m in a really sketchy area or a large city I’ll be more careful but day to day is not an issue for me.
Just make sure you move to the Netherlands when you come you’ll be fine
Man the UK is such a shithole… luckily these problems are non existent in most of Europe.
Wow where are you from
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/rankings/safe
Southkorea don’t even appear on lists for safe countries, but all Lists have atleast 7 european countries in the Top Ten. Talking about Europe as unsafe is far from Reality. Maybe you talk about Belarus?
I can’t take that ranking seriously, it has Ireland and Australia safer than Japan, and Italy, France and the UK safer than South Korea. It’s just a survey of random people’s feelings - apparently people who don’t know the countries in question
For example here’s another survey showing a massive difference: https://www.numbeo.com/crime/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&country2=South+Korea&city1=London&city2=Seoul&tracking=getDispatchComparison
And here’s a comparison of crime rate numbers showing most of your top twenty safest countries as less safe than most East Asian countries
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/KOR/south-korea/crime-rate-statistics
This is all on average of course
Are you male or female?
I’ve heard a lot of things about south korea and upskirting/harassment?
less scary than most things. especially as scot
I’m a man - It’s a good point, and I think that’s the exception to the whole “East Asia is super safe” idea. I can’t say whether it’s better or worse here compared to Europe though, and would like to hear from any women who’ve lived on both sides. I know women who’ve been attacked in both countries. Drink spiking / rape is a problem here but I’m not sure about the comparison. It’s underreported here too.
Without minimising harassment and sexual assault, women living in Asia still benefit from the overall difference in safety / violence culture - plenty of Asian women are shocked to be robbed and even physically assaulted when visiting Europe. It’s not only perpetrated by men, some of the young women are just as feral…
The thing is, having lived in Paris, London, Shanghai, Tokyo, i must say my concerns are mainly as i stated, i got spoiled by life in Tokyo especially. The type of safety im talking about is what some people have already mentionned. In Paris you get cat call all the time, both in London and Paris people with mental issues can aggress you, those kind of encounters happen a lot in metro/underground, not to mention thievery in the streets, or just accidently looking into people’s eyes when they get triggered and immediately become aggressive and want to confront you. Then there’re the shady/sketchy areas which, compared to the « sketchy » areas in Tokyo for example, it’s just another level. So im not even going to all the rape or murder stuff, but day to day basic safety and freedom of walking in the street, just going on about my own thing… im very worried to not be able to get used to how it is in europe.
This is a minor issue
It’s a similar experience to that of people from 3rd world countries that emigrate to western Europe. As you mention, you’re not 100% safe, but it’s a world of a difference.
Not from Europe or East Asia, but lived in Hong Kong for 4 years and now in Germany for the past 2 years. Yes, safety level and public transport is better but that’s about it. There is such a huge cultural difference and language barrier that you need to get used to if you’ve otherwise been used to western culture. You can meet other expats, but those circles are limited and you stand out in a highly ethnic Chinese population and it’s not easy to integrate and feel at home, especially if you’re non-White. You can manage with English but many locals aren’t great at speaking it and mostly socialize in Cantonese. Whereas in Germany, there are far greater range of ethnicities who are better integrated and speak German fluently, so if you just put effort into the language, then integrating is far easier.
After living in Hong Kong as an exchange student for 3 months and coming back to Europe, I’ve never felt that good about my life again ever since I left… Life only went down after coming back to Europe…
Funny you talk about security because after far east asian, Europe is definitely way safer than any other part of the world.
Funny, I never had to watch my back where I live in Europe and my nearest shop is 5 minutes walk. Megacities in Asia freaked me out as this impersonal places of no soul. I never got feeling of safety there.
Where did you live in asia ans where in europe do you live now
The one I heard is from more the higher end expats who miss having domestic staff help with most of their chores while in Asia, sometimes it’s part of the expat package
Domestic help is cheap in HK. You can get a live-in SEA helper through employment agency for less than HKD 5k/m (£500/m) plus return tickets and insurance. Some double salary earning middle-class families employ live-in domestic helpers as well.
This will be looked back on as essentially the same as slavery
Unfortunately it is common in HK and Singapore.