I’m curious to hear opinions on how bureaucracy/inefficiency impacts day to day life. We often hear how Western Europe is horrendous with being able to get things done efficiently- but I’m curious to hear for Europe as a whole, are there any exceptions? Would like to hear about the “less popular” expat locations in Europe.

For activities such as getting internet set up in a new flat; or having the heat break and needing the repair company to come look at it- which countries in Europe would be the most efficient?

  • DryWeetbix@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    There’s a lot of things I don’t like about the Netherlands, but I would say that it’s pretty efficient. Got my residence permit within a couple months of applying, and they let you stay legally while you wait for the outcome of your application. Then, once you have that, you can apply for a social security number. Can usually get an appointment within a month. Easy to get a bank account. The tax office takes care of most of your tax issues for you. Signing up for (mandatory) health insurance takes 10 mins.

    The downside is that the fine-tunes machine can fuck you over if anything weird happens. I know an American guy who moved over here for his wife, later got divorced, which made him ineligible for his residence permit, but the courts ordered that he live in the same town as his ex-wife for the sake of the kids. So, he legally had to stay in the country, but was technically an illegal resident, so he has no social security number, no legal address, no work rights, and no access to healthcare. Finally, after nearly a decade, he finally raised enough money to get a lawyer to take his case to sort it all out. The courts decided to deport him.

    That’s a horror story, but I have found in general that the Netherlands works well as long as you don’t fall between the cracks. If you do, you’re pretty boned.

      • DryWeetbix@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        No, but he would have broken the terms of his divorce agreement and forfeited his rights to see his children.

  • FidomUK@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    I can personally vouch for Greece. It must be one of the most bureaucratic inefficient countries in Europe.

  • supreme_mushroom@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    For the things you’ve listed, Ireland is quite good. Generally very fast to get things done and not too much bureaucracy, easy to setup as a freelancer, business, online digital services pretty decent.

    There are other factors that make it less ideal though, which are high rental costs, poor public transport, and health service, which really vary depending on what you’re comparing against.

  • F1eshWound@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    Not Germany, that’s for sure. My vote is for the Netherlands? As an Aussie, it was quite easy. Back account is effortless, only visit to the city hall, the rest is online basically.

    • fluffyegghead@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      I second this! Germany has a huge immigration process, especially if you come from a non-EU or EEA country. There are a lot of steps, you need torun to thousand different offices, where there will be (at least some) people that don’t speak (good) english. As a german who lived abroad and came back, it was difficult, and I am fluent in german. There’s a stupid ‘Amt’ (governmental institution) for everything, and they often work independently from each other. Also, very little of legal and immigration processes are online, most of the time you need to go there in person, bring a lot of other documents, and with an appointment.

      I found immigrating into the netherlands much easier. However, I am a EU-citizen, so that might not be the same for everyone. Getting a burgernummer (citizen number) and a digID (digital identification) were like magic keys that unlocked nearly everything else! Getting a bank account, a phone contract, being able to rent a flat, signing up for parking, everything! Also, imo, all immigration workers spoke at least a little bit of english, if not perfect english. Lots of proceses are online, and theres no need to go to places in person, unless you really want to/need super specific advice.

      In short: The dutch system was much easier to learn in a few months, as opposed to the german system, which I’ve been growing up in, and still am confused by.

  • hudibrastic@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    This is one of the few things I like in the Netherlands… there’s a government single sign-on, you get your ID and can log in to pretty much any government and government-related app/site

    There’s a central communication app (Berichtenbox) where you receive messages from virtually any government-related communication

    I can’t remember anything I had to do in person or God forbidden to use some old-fashioned mail/fax, apart from collecting the biometrics for my residence permit

    • RelativeOperation7@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      The only bad thing about the Dutch system is if you dont have that single sign-let’s say you are 88 years old without kids and computer illiterate) then communicating with the Government is very very hard.

      • torriethecat@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        There are cheap courses by libraries elderly can follow. My grandparents aged 84 and 88 own a computer and they can use it.

  • Stuffthatpig@alien.top
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    1 year ago

    The Netherlands has to rank high. Once you have your permit, it’s pretty much all online. It’s easy to deal with services and everyone speaks English which greases the groove a bit.

  • eTransporter@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    Doesn’t efficiency come with bureaucratic? Or at least strict rules/policies in order to be efficient? Freedom to do what you want requires less bureaucracy or more?

  • Rob81196@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    Honestly the UK 🇬🇧 compared to other places I’ve lived, Ireland 🇮🇪 Belgium 🇧🇪 and France 🇫🇷 the Uk government website is truly a godsend! The gov offices can be a bit tatty though