What are the pros and cons of each? I’ve seen slow paced (non hustle) countries being romanticized , but personally I struggle in such places.
What are your thoughts? Where are you now and is it slow/fast paced? What do you like there?
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I’m in the Philippines and here they call it “Island Time” or Filipino time. That basically means that no one is on time 🤣 make an appt at the doctor for 2:30? Everyone else’s appt is at 2:30 too and doctor doesn’t show up until 3:15 😏 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7KzTfwl5WaA&t=13s
Sounds good to me lmao I’m always late
Really up to you as a person. I came from a very fast paced environment, comfortable with the competition and intensity to the extent I thought it was normal. Moved to Taipei and I’m now finding myself unreasonably annoyed at every small inconvenience. People get stressed in a very fast paced and orderly environment, I get stressed without the speed and order.
The escalators are moving so slowly, the cashier at the store chatting with the customer in front of me, people strolling on the sidewalk, the traffic lights seeming to take forever. Leeway for deadlines, people turning up 5-10 minutes late for appointments, people chatting for half an hour before the meeting begins, no moderator and agendas for meetings, we wait for people. It’s not slow, it’s being reasonable and flexible, they say.
Tokyo and Seoul are on another level. I’ve never felt so anxious while trying to figure out which side of the train I should be taking, or guilty about taking up a spot on the train during peak hours.
Though I do enjoy being able to wake up late and not have to listen to passive aggressive comments about my poor discipline. I can even make small talk now without being remarked as lazy. Still can’t decide what I actually like.
I’m American but have previously lived in France and now in the UK. Industry is tech/consulting.
The US (particularly the Silicon Valley where I worked) is extremely fast paced. It’s an unforgiving place that requires constant hustle, showmanship and ‘up and to the right’ mentality. The glass ceiling is so high in SV tech companies but VC firms have become increasingly stringent in funding rounds which puts pressure on KPIs and deliverables. It’s incredibly exciting and I often felt I was helping to create the ‘thing of the future’ but the pace of work was ultimately too demanding for me. I regularly worked 60 hour weeks, the company paid for breakfast, lunch and dinner because that was expected and it was all consuming. Pay was amazing though.
France was almost the complete opposite. A 35 hour week was standard and colleagues adhered to this stringently. We had 33 days PTO + 11 national holidays each year. Companies essentially shut down for most of August as everyone went to the seaside. 2 hour lunch breaks was common and we almost always had wine. Parents would often go pick up their kids from school during lunch break and cook for them before coming back. That said, as an American, it felt like everyone was coasting and that no one cared about entrepreneurship or innovation. Going above and beyond / pushing the limits was seen as a bad thing and I felt decreasingly motivated about work due to the ‘it is what it is’ mentality.
The UK (particularly London) feels like it has one foot in North American culture and one foot in European culture. I still get a ton of PTO (30 days + 10 bank holidays) and the work day is a standard 40 hours on average. The tech scene feels exciting for Europe, but nowhere near the same levels entrepreneurship or innovation as California. It feels like a healthy mix of work and play, people are motivated when in the office, but they actually turn off when outside the office. If only the pay was better it’d be the perfect working conditions for a driven person.
is pay good for the likes of Amazon, Meta in London at least?
Thank you for sharing this and mentioning UK. I am always interested in countries that have a bit of both. Having lived there how do you find the quality of life and weather?
The weather itself is fine. It doesn’t get super cold (rarely snows) and doesn’t get super hot except for a couple heat waves. I’m from California and got used to the temperature fairly quickly.
The worst thing is the constant gloom and darkness. It’s very often overcast so you feel you never get the sun and many people supplement with vit D. And the winters are pretty bad due to the short days. London’s latitude is higher than nearly every major North American city (on par with Calgary) so the sun sets around 3-4pm for months at a time.
I know a majority of France works like this but there are some very cut throat work fields. I’m not saying this to oppose or prove you wrong but just to offer a perspective. My husband works with a lot of companies and start ups. While his colleagues usually stick to 35h work week, he refuses to leave the office before 8pm. And that’s him slowed down. Before it was 9, 10, 11… he travels frequently and goes back to work in the morning even if he arrived late at night. He pushes, pushes and pushes… sometimes accepts meetings with Americans at 9pm. After he gets back home already late, he spends around half an hour wrapping up and replying emails. Takes calls on weekends, public holidays and he hasn’t stopped working during our vacations. Yes, we take a month long time off during August but the poor thing works through it. I had to wait for him for an hour by the pool so that he can finish a call or an email to join me so many times. It’s unthinkable for him and his goals to manage his life any other way. But he’s extremely dissatisfied because he says that his projects gets shut down for small silly reasons, his bosses don’t respect his hustle and some of the higher ups are straight incompetent and some expect more from him but more in terms of things that you can easily overlook for an overachiever like him. They don’t appreciate his enthusiasm at all and weigh him down with small stupid dysfunctional stuff.
In our friends group, a guy founded his own tech start up and works on an even crazier schedule than my husband. He almost cannot function outside work. His wife has her own wellness brand and she takes appointments with her clients for 12h straight sometimes and travels once a month to offer her services elsewhere too.
Another lawyer friend started his own firm and I’ve witnessed him pulling 2 all nighters in a row.
Interesting thing is that, employers will expect results that can only be produced by people who work with this rhythm but shot down any efforts if anyone is working at this speed because those employees will also be highly demanding support, flexibility, responsiveness and compensation. I see those people as small groups of vigilantes trying to make it work in a hostile environment.
I think it mainly depends on your work situation. Most of my friends back in the US signed contracts for 40 hours a week but some work 60+ hours a week and others work 20 hours a week.
Croatia felt to me like both a fast and slow paced country, especially if you work in tourism. During the high season you work long hours but once the tourists slow down for the year it really turns into a slow paced country. I’d say it’s a slow paced country for the people who don’t work in tourism, e.g government or office jobs.
What work did you son in Croatia? I just got my citizenship and speak fluently. I have a film degree and a good union job with benefits in Los Angeles (fast pace) but dream of moving to Croatia. I’m afraid my skills don’t transfer and I’m worried the slow pace or lack of job prospects would be bad environment to raise my daughter. Any insight?
I worked at a hostel.
I don’t know anything about film related jobs in Croatia so I can’t comment about that.
Overall I think it’s a good place to raise a kid since it’s incredibly safe and kids are given much more freedom by parents than is typical in the US. The lack of job prospects is a legitimate worry and the country has been hit by two brain drains (the civil war and joining the Schengen zone). I assume your daughter is also a dual citizen so she’d be able to move to the US or anywhere in the EU for work so she’d have a lot of good options. I guess the big question (it’s also the one my wife and I are asking ourselves a lot as her parents live in Croatia) is are you okay raising a kid knowing they likely will have to leave their home country to go abroad for work.
Yeah that’s a good point. Will she be able to make that leap? Same can be said for keeping her in Los Angeles.
I’m late 40’s . Not unwilling to to change careers but could be too late. What about jobs in Croatia for dual citizens?
The only dual citizen job I can think of would be for the US Embassy in Zagreb or the State Department (not sure what kind of presence they have in Croatia). Frankly though I wouldn’t move to Croatia to live in Zagreb. The coast and the mountains are the beauty of the country not the “big city”.
No matter the pay, I do not want to work 60+ hours a week for megalomaniacs like the CEOs of big tech companies, while being constantly at risk of being fired.
I like my 40 hour work week, 6 weeks of vacation, and my shops close on Sundays. Doesn’t mean on some weeks you do not work longer hours, but on other weeks you then work less.
Fuck hustle “culture”.
That’s not really accurate. A lot of CEOs of tech are chill, don’t expect more than 8 hours and some people don’t work much Fridays. You also have a shot of making a few million in a few years and won’t have to work again for the rest of your life.
SOME roles in tech and SOME companies expect a great deal, but that’s not really the standard.
You’re not “constantly” at risk of being fired. This is really only since covid and now while the market is not doing great. And the layoff perks are great. Personally, I know of a lot of people who want to be laid off and be paid to do nothing for 6 months or more.
Where are you located?
Sounds like Germany to me!
I don’t think it’s about countries but cities.
Many countries have the fastest and slowest paces in different regions.
Same I like that on vacations or maybe a month at max. But I like my daily life to be dynamic and things to actually pursue
For context, I live now in Montreal where there is always something happening. Want culture, entertainment, to protest, etc. There is always something happening.
I live in Cairo, it’s like the oddest mix of fast-paced / slow paced.
Need a home repair? Maybe the repairman will come, maybe not.
Deadlines? Never heard of ‘em, so if you miss a deadline, no worries there wasn’t one to begin with really it was just a suggestion.
The work extends to your personal life. You’re smoking hookah at a cafe on the street and it’s 11pm? No problem, off the record meeting just to ensure that everything goes well for the next work day.
With all these awfully lenient habits, you’re still expected to get many, many things done on time and most people here complain that they are exhausted from it - because it feels like most factors are out of your control. You have to hustle around the slow-paced culture.
It’s also beautiful. People make time to eat and spend time with each other. People are always laughing and take things lightly. You can make friends anywhere because everyone talks like they know each other. The community-based culture is obvious and makes everything better.
I’d rather have to hustle like this but still have that community feel rather than being in a fast-paced city and spend my free time isolated
Since you asked for our thoughts.
I think importance of this issue is exaggerated.
I migrated to USA and settled in The Bay Area. And while some people believe this to be high paced area, my life here was very laid back.
At the same time some areas that people are calling “more laid” back I see people are struggling and are forced to hassle to survive.
Not to mention, people’s priorities change with years and I find it more practical to adjust your lifestyle locally than to become a migrant simply because your current location is too fast or too slow.
Depends.
If you want to make good salary and get shit done fast paced places are the heaven, and slow paced ones extremely irritating.
If your priorities aren’t about career/money you will likely find fast paced places irritating, and people competing in the rat race obnoxious.
I like when things happen. Although I don’t like noise. In work I prefer being able to move towards my goals with disciplined people. In personal life I prefer the fun of chaotic places, but that can be overwhelming if happens all day every day.
But there can be different combinations of things:
I found it Copenhagen a good combination of the two sides. Things happen there financially and there is progression, while it is a peaceful place where people leave you alone and don’t make noise( =pointless and thoughtless sounds and other stimuli). But people sometimes go too far in their coldness, and they are simply acting badly and dishonestly, instead of neutrality.
On the other hand there is Budapest. Financially things don’t seem to progress much. But there is always something fun to do. It is chaotic enough to make it not enjoyable for financial growth, although life has adrenaline as you don’t know which laws will change in a few weeks, and don’t know which are enforced and which aren’t. People are direct and upfront, which means you can hang out with random people on the street, but also means people are nosy and bother others, which I don’t like.
After living incredibly high paced life, I became one of those people who is obsessed with low paced life and work indeed. In the end I came to realise that I enjoy living in a place where I get to set the pace of my life and work regardless of whether it is considered high/low paced compared to some other place or people.
I think both strictly low/high paced work and life situations are quite dysfunctional for almost the same reasons; obsession with “culture”, rigid thinking, lack of curiosity for alternatives, lack of imagination and trying to gain (or not loose) something at all costs.
So for me the right place is the one that gives everyone a dial to adjust speed both for their life and work.
So where I live I have access to both digital and manual options to handle my official business. Not because country is stuck in transition, but there are different options available for different needs across population. I can work extra hours if I commit to a goal to get promoted or I can coast and focus on other things while other people get a chance to hit the gas pedal. Life feels like an improvised waltz with strangers, and I like it this way.
PS: I refrained from giving names to places, as I am convinced it doesn’t matter. Find the place that gives you all things I mentioned.
You are talking about fast vs slow paced in different countries. How about that switch within the same country. For a local? Lol.
This depends on what you want from life. I used to be very busy: work + studying + other activities like NGOs, until I graduated and moved abroad. Even in high school, I had an extracurricular almost every single day after classes, and I spent many weekends at school-related activities. At that time, living in a fast-paced city sounded like a dream.
Now at 24 (feels like I’m writing 44 lol), I really enjoy the 9-5, chill working culture and security of a Dutch city (outside the Randstad) that everyone considers boring. A fast-paced place like London or NYC would drain me. The Netherlands is IMO slow-paced because there is no hustle culture, even though institutions are efficient.